Its official. I just became the last Queer persyn to see Brokeback Mountain. Not that i didn’t want to see it before, but that shit’s expensive. And i didn’t have anyone to go see it with me.
But in all honesty, i think the best thing i have to say about Brokeback Mountain is that i never really thought Heath Ledger was hawt until this movie. I think the anal sex really works for him.
I didn’t think it was all that bad of a movie. I just thought it was…ok. I’ve really enjoyed reading the critiques of Crash from One Tenacious Baby Mama, Reappropriate, and Angry Asian Man (why is it that these two movies always have to be pitted against each other as if they were inextractable and yet completely opposed). I certainly hear where they are coming from with regards to not only the shortcomings of Crash, but the complete miss of the mark. Granted, i’d rather the masses be talking about Crash (or even Brokeback Mountain) than some stupid fucking movie where some White guy like George Clooney plays some asshole who treats some womyn like shit because he can’t stand the fact that his dicks not up in her biz and the big plot twist is that through some act of fate, probably involving a child or an article of the womyn’s clothing, he realizes that he doesn’t hate her he actually loves her and all of a sudden he isn’t an asshole anymore even though he never actually changed and in the end he still just wants his dick rubbed. Well, now that i think about it, they aren’t really that different.
After watching Brokeback Mountain (having already endured every analysis my brain could withstand), i became very confused about a common theme in the Crash vs Cowboys discussions. That theme being that people felt that Crash contributed nothing to discussions on race while at least Brokeback showed what it was like to be gay in a homophobic society. I’d say that Brokeback contributes about as much to collective conciousness as Crash, if that. Don’t mean to be an ass, but what exactly did we learn from Brokeback? That if we let the closet door swing open too wide then we’ll end up in the middle of fucking nowhere like Matthew Shephard? Cuz i already learned that lesson… when it happened to Matthew Shephard.
And isn’t that all we’re talking about here? Gay White guys? Sorry, but i didn’t exactly see myself anywhere in this movie. I was glad to see the story of two working-class Queers. And what could be hotter than some assfucking in the Montana wilderness? But i found the account of gay cowboys to be even more enlightening when i read about it in a 50 cent copy of Gay American History that i got at a library book sale.
Just like Crash, this movie didn’t challenge anything other than the very narrow view that cowboys are “real men” not sissyfags. In no way did it really question homophobia other than showing homosexuality in a setting that we are already familiar with - hidden. Sure, i cried a little. Of course i did. I’m sick of fucking hearing about Queer people being murdered. It happens all the time, not just in the megaplex. And to be reminded of the constant threat that we live under brings great sadness to my soul. But the small amount of emotion sparked by this movie was dust in the wind compared to how debilitated i felt after watching Boys Don’t Cry. A movie that i found so powerfully debilitating that i seriously thought i was going to vomit. For two days i was nauseous. But hey, at least straight people can go see Brokeback and go back to there homes saying to themselves, “those poor people.” Thanks, but if anyone is going to throw a pity party for me, it going to be me, dammit!
But i wil say one thing. Brokeback didn’t make claims to challenge homophobia. It wasn’t meant to open our eyes to bigotry. It was meant as a beautiful love story. And that it was. Just because its love between two working men doesn’t mean it needs to be about somethig other than love.
I still haven’t seen this movie–just like i still haven’t seen crash…I think from what i’ve read, one of the only things it has going for it from a queer perspective is that it *is* a very beautiful movie from what i’ve heard–i mean, i aint gonna kid ya, jake and heath are enough to make me see any damn movie–and ang lee always shoots very beautiful movies–so i think all that beauty might make it more palitable for mainstream viewers…a lot of men and women might not go see hillary in boys don’t cry because she’s not a traditional beauty, and she’s passing for a boy, so that movie, by extension, is just not going to be as sparkly beautiful as brokeback–i mean it was “ok” enough that for the most part, the christian right camp left it alone–although that might be simply because, the “fags’ are properelly punished for their transgressions in the end. I don’t know. I guess I need to see it before I can comment–but I have a hard time watching movies like that, no matter how beautiful they are, because I, like you, am just sick and tired of sad miserable endings.
“Just like Crash, this movie didn’t challenge anything other than the very narrow view that cowboys are “real men” not sissyfags. In no way did it really question homophobia other than showing homosexuality in a setting that we are already familiar with - hidden.”
I finally saw it last night too. Very beautiful and moving. Alot of suburban folks including older husbands and wives were in the audience and seemed to love it. Heath and Jake were very manly and hidden but I think the movie encourages tolerance and acceptance of gays. I heard the Christian right left it alone so it wouldn’t get as much publicity as Farenheit 911.
While ground breaking for some non-queers to attend and actually watch Brokeback, the story is stuck where many of “mainstream” America is stuck in regards to the queer/gender variant issues.
Perhaps it was helpful for some white straight Americans to see Brokeback and have an image of same-gender love among macho white men. Maybe some will now let love be something they are not so hostile against. But what about all the butch, fem, queers of color who even in the “gay community” get pushed to the fringes?
Hollywood and viewer may be willing to invest in a film about “straight-acting” straight actors playing it gay, but there are so many stories that need to be told.
Hopefully audiences got the bigger message of the film as Ebert put it:
“Brokeback Mountain” has been described as “a gay cowboy movie,” which is a cruel simplification. It is the story of a time and place where two men are forced to deny the only great passion either one will ever feel. Their tragedy is universal. It could be about two women, or lovers from different religious or ethnic groups — any “forbidden” love.
i think its a film worth seeing, but i agree with Ebert. We need to stop looking at it as “a gay cowboy film”. Cuz when we do, it falls short. As a gay cowboy film it shows us that cowboys can be Queer and Queer cowboys are targets of hate. This is pretty basic stuff that i like to think people already know.
But if we look at the larger picture, that of a love story denied it is so much more. It makes it persynal. Not just for those in “forbidden” relationships but for everyone who has ever had their passions denied. Which in this world is pretty much everyone.
It is a beautifully created film. Sometimes a little flat to me, but not so much so that i’m going to shrug it off. And i agree that maybe it will make straight people think a little (but then we are going back to looking at it as a gay cowboy movie). But my argument is the same as the folks i listed above talking about Crash. Sure, straight people will get to see two White guys in love who are exiled from their passions. But that’s where it stops. Straight people can move on and feel confident that they aren’t un-normal because normal is to beat Queer people to death. They get to feel good with their liberal notions of equality - that just because they would never think about beating a gay White guy to death they aren’t perpetuating the homophobic and heterosexist norms that dominate our lives. As i said, they can just go home and feel sorry for us Queers (the gay White men, at least. The only people of color in the film are sex workers lurking in the shadows of a Mexican city, destroyers of love, certainly nothing worthy of beauty). Pity doesn’t change anything. It just continues the normalization of hatred.
bfp - you brought up a very good point. Its now prety excepted in mainstream society to talk about gay White men. Especially two that look like Jake and Heath. But to talk about trans people or to talk about Queer wimmin (who aren’t being fetishized, of course) is still very tabboo. Heath and Jake are still accepted as beautiful because they aren’t really challenging gender norms, they are just bending them a bit to their desires. A transman, however, even one as gorgeous as Hillary Swank is an abhorration. Far from beautiful. Far from acceptable. To watch the true story of a transman who is raped and killed by a good friend when he finds out that Brandon is transsexual (and that the killer also shot and killed his non-trans friend because she helped Brandon) is far too persynal. The rapist and killer is a good guy, an average guy who just happens to flip his shit. Well geez, anyone can flip their shit. I mean trans people are pretty gross and sick in the head. How do i know that if i found out that a friend was transgendered that i wouldn’t flip my shit. I don’t think i would kill anyone, but who knows what i would do. Far too challenging.
i haven’t seen brokeback yet! my partner and i plan to go see it when it comes to the second run theatres. sometime when i don’t have finals and don’t have to work extra shifts, i’ll finally get to see it (and crash too).
i hear you on Boys Don’t Cry. i was pretty sure after seeing that movie that i’d never have faith in another human being every again. i’ve only seen it once and i don’t think i want to see it again.
I don’t think tho, vegan that we should *entirely* dismiss mainstream viewers ability to put themselves in other’s shoes, as boy’s don’t cry *did* get mainstream enough for oscar’s didn’t it? Didn’t it win a best actress for hillary (who in turn showed up looking as girly as she possibly could???
i think that everybody has all brought up the concept of nomalization–and it seems to me (i want to emphasize that I haven’t seen *any* of the movies we are talking about so feel free to dismiss everything I have to say!!! :->) that what is at stake here is the *normalization* of violence against queerness, transexuality, gender bending etc. I mean, it looks like the general theme of these movies is that violence is heavily intergrated into the story–the storylines literally couldn’t exist without violence. Perhaps it is that normalization of *violence* that allows movies like boy’s don’t cry and brokeback to be accepted by mainstream audiences. I am thinking of that movie that was critically acclaimed this year, but that *nobody* saw that was also about a trans person (i think woman)–and I wonder how much violence was in that movie? If I remember right, that movie was mostly about a transmother getting to know her son–but who wants to see a show about a transwoman getting to know her son? esp when you have to walk out of the theater knowing that you *still have to care* about that transmother because she wasn’t brutally eliminated from existance?
I really need to see these damn movies so i can stop speculating and have a real opinion–:-)
ok, I tried to erase that first entry, cuz I wasn’t as clear as I like, and I couldn’t!!!! Sorry about that!!! I meant the second post, not the first!!!
bfp - i went ahead and erased the first comment for ya. You’re right in that i probably don’t give mainstream folks enough credit for putting themselves in someone elses shoes, but so often i feel like privilege tends to quickly snap back into place and that brief life in someone else’s shoes is easily and quickly replaced with other comforts. And it is true that Swank won an Oscar for her role in Boys Don’t Cry, but i am still completely baffled as to how that happened cuz i don’t think i know a single non-Queer persyn who has actually seen that movie. Besides, i don’t really think that the Oscars are a true indication of what movies people actually watch and like.
I wish i could remember the name of the movie that you are talking about. I remember reading about it when it was playing here (which was for a whole week) and thought that i really wanted to go see it, but i didn’t have the money. I’d like to see if i could find it to see if the pattern of normalized violence is true. Even if not, i’d like to see it.
I definitely hear ya on the normalization of violence thing. I wrote a paper in college about the culture of violence and argued that within the dominant culture violence consumes every aspect of our life. (i was working off of Paulo Freire’s definition of violence - being that violence isn’t just limited to physical examples, but psychological, economic, and emotional as well.) So as far as i’m concerned, these movies aren’t working to create a normalization of violence, they are just working within the framework of violence that already defines all that we do. I guess what i’m arguing for is that radical act of love that counters the culture of violence. (if people want to get into a discussion on what is violence, i’ll start up a new post cuz it could be a long one. I also turn to Fannon for a liberatory definition of violence; basically being that self-defense is never an act of violence but an act of survival and self-determination).
So, bfp, i guess i’m just saying that i agree with what your saying.
fournier - while i encourage others to see Boys Don’t Cry, i’m with ya on never being able to watch it again. I just can’t put myself through that. I’ve never had a movie make me feel the way that one did. Tho Hotel Rwanda was pretty damn close.
Eek!
Holy misunderstanding, Batman!
I didn’t write about crash. I didn’t go see it. Figured it would be a liberal schlock-fest. My partner and I both agreed. Written by a white canadian, denizen of a country that has worked really hard to erase any visible vestiges of its systemic, historic racism?…yeah, it would play “nice” and leave everyone especially white folks feeling hopeful.
I wrote about Brokeback. Now, don’t tell me you didn’t read it.
really!?! i could have sworn that i saw a comment from you regarding Crash that said something to the extent of what you just wrote (except i apparently missed the fact that you hadn’t seen it). Whoo! Here’s to flying with blinders on! I’m sorry for putting words in your mouth, darkdaughter. I’ll do better research next time.
I wasn’t aware that you had written about Brokeback. Must have missed that post. I’ll see if i can find it. And no, i didn’t read it. First thought through my head before watching it was (i should read the book first). But i tend to really not like movies if i read the book first so i figured i’d give it the benefit of the doubt.
“So as far as i’m concerned, these movies aren’t working to create a normalization of violence, they are just working within the framework of violence that already defines all that we do”
that is exactly what i was trying to say vegankid. that if that violence isn’t there, than a movie gower literally can not grasp the bigger concept behind the movie. I mean, didn’t crash *also* base most of its storyline around violence?
it seems like these movies are showing how the one way we can approach a subject and understand a subject is through violence. We understand queerness, race, gender expectations, all through a lens of violence–we understand why a straight guy would kill his best friend. We understand why a white guy would let a brown person die. We understand without really critically examining how *sad* that is that we understand through violence.
I took a creative writing class where this gay kid wrote a peice about coming out, and most of the class stated that they didn’t like the peice because it was “too easy” for him to come out…he came out to his mother in the piece, and although he was nervous and scared, she wound up embracing him and loving him because he finally felt he could be honest with her. Most felt that he should’ve switched from writing about her to his enounter with his father…I felt a bit uncomfortable at that conversation, but I think that I am finally able to put a finger on why–the radical act of total acceptance and love that a woman can offer is considered “too easy” and people can’t understand the story that goes with it. they *can* understand the violence of complete and total angry rejection, however.
I like your thought “that radical act of love that counters the culture of violence.”
the radical act of love.
so much swims through my head thinking this phrase, i can’t even write…
huh. i wonder if i’m not really Queer because my mom, dad, and sister have all been really supportive even when they don’t really understand my gender identity. Maybe to really exist i need to go down to a local bar and wait until someone beats the crap out of me because they can’t figure out if i’m a man or a womyn. What i’m trying to say in a very sarcastic and roundabout way is that was a really fucked up response to that persyn’s comming out story. I mean G’s! As if its not hard enough to come out and expect violence. But the violence that everyone else expects actually has to be played out or your coming out is “too easy” and therefore marginalized as a story not really worth hearing. Fuck that shit!
And yes, the storyline of Crash was based upon violence act upon violent act.
That’s why i’m not convinced that just watching such films raises awareness to the violence that Queer people or people of color or whatever target is filmed. People are well aware of the violence. They expect it. That’s why people like my mom cry when their children tell them they are Queer. Not because they are ashamed, but because they fear for their child’s life. If a film is to actually raise consciousness, it must do so by challenging violence.
Boys Don’t Cry traumatized me in a major way, too, vegankid. I came out in a pretty supportive environment, to a fairly supportive family, and even Matthew Shepard’s death didn’t bring home the danger that I could be in as a queer. Boys Don’t Cry did that, however, in a major way: I left the theatre shaking and crying. Even though I’m not terribly gender-variant, somehow watching the story of a transman hit me more than anything else had.
Bigmouth over at BigQueer has some thoughts on why certain types of performances are rewarded: Are Fags the New ‘Tards?